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New non-league structure
Views: 3580
We are no longer in the Bostik League! But I haven't a clue where we've ended up!
http://www.isthmian.co.uk/new-season-new-structure-new-clubs-50509
Re: New non-league structure
Views: 26770
I was depressed enough after the Dulwich result but the nonsensical announcement on the league allocation really takes the biscuit. I can only apply Jacob Rees Mogg’s recently used descriptor of cretinous to the decision on our allocation.
At the stroke of a pen all the hard work people have put into progressing the club has been put in jeopardy. In practical terms the financial consequences of putting a London club into what is effectively a West and South West league can only lead to a slow death for our club as we haemorrhage money left, right and centre.
Why so? Well the additional costs involved will surely be crippling:–
- a players’ coach for most away matches and/or increased travel expenses for those who drive to the games;
- higher wages to compensate the players for the inconvenience involved with the excessive travelling and/or compensation for lost wages from their day jobs when they have to take time off, especially for mid-week jobs.
You wonder at the thought processes of those who took this decision. Do they not realise that they are dealing with part-time players with other jobs? Career-wise these other jobs would logically have to be given precedence over football.
Allocating clubs to leagues where the bulk of their opponents are geographically distant results in detriment. Look at the farce of Bishops Stortford and Lowestoft being placed in the National League North. Lowestoft on the verge of bankruptcy and Stortford buried in the lower reaches of the Southern League
As for our supporters will there be many going to a lot of the away games?
Let's be honest, for a significant number of the other clubs in the new league they are places you might expect to travel to once or twice a year for and FA cuo game or Trophy tie.
Apart from the sheer cost of travel and the time involved there are the long standing issues of the unreliability of the train companies serving some of these Westward and South West destinations. Anyone fancy being stranded overnight in Dorchester, Poole or Taunton for example? Going to these games would probably necessitate needing to budget for an unexpected hotel stay if the trains failed.
I don’t know if there is any appeal facility against the allocation but if so I hope that the Club will use it. If not I wonder if the club is contemplating legal action. Perhaps the recently announced 12th man fund could be swiftly converted into a judicial review fund!
Failing the above options perhaps the Club will attract the attentions of that well know West Country cider millionaire Old Farmer Tamplin and he’ll invest millions in Hendon FC to cover everyone’s costs!
Team-wise if this craziness goes ahead, I wonder how many, if any, of the present squad we will retain? I see Gary appears to have given the move the thumbs down on Twitter, so I wonder how long he will be around?
Sorry FA but it’s a nul points from me.
Re: New non-league structure
Views: 3086
I agree with all of that but wouldn't the hoped-for elevation to the National South (that we busted a gut to try to achieve) have resulted in a similar geographical mix of away fixtures but with Truro City thrown in for good measure? I would be happy to see an appeal lodged but maybe the coming season will be a test of Hendon FC's logistical ability to rise up the non-league pyramid?
Re: New non-league structure
Views: 3029
“I agree with all of that but wouldn't the hoped-for elevation to the National South (that we busted a gut to try to achieve) have resulted in a similar geographical mix of away fixtures but with Truro City thrown in for good measure?”
But if we had gone up to national south we would have played bigger teams resulting in a larger amount of gate money coming in to cover coaches to place like Truro.
Edited by WillesdenGreen at 23:37:11 on 11th May 2018
Re: New non-league structure
Views: 3159
Point taken. However, as I am not party to the financial aspects of the club, I chose not to speculate on such matters. My point was that this change in travel arrangements would be similar for both eventualities. Maybe the introduction of the London-based clubs will encourage a larger away support at SJP from fans taking a weekend break in London? Any extra cash through the turnstiles will be welcome.
Re: New non-league structure
Views: 3026
Re: appealing the decision.
There are a whole host of reasons why I think an appeal would be a fools errand.
Firstly Staines and Harrow have accepted the decision. For us to build a compelling case without the support of these two clubs is nigh on impossible.
If we are to appeal on the basis of increased travelling time and costs then the FA would rightly ask whether we were planning to take our place in the NLS where travelling is of a similar level and also point to Harrow who are less than ten miles down the road and taken the decision on the chin.
I can't imagine any appeal is going to have any chance of success unless we go to the FA with a potential solution that involves an Isthmian club happily swapping with us. Not going to happen.
Perception, as Hendonboy says below counts for a lot. We have built a reputation for being a progressive and gracious club in victory and defeat. Personally, I don't like the message an appeal would send out.
An appeal is likely to be costly. IF there was a good chance of success then fine, it's worth doing. I can't see any chance of success and think we would be better off using that money to better effect to prepare for the season ahead.
We may only be in the Southern League for one season. If, say, Hungerford, Oxford City and Weston Super-Mare get relegated next term from the NLS then we are first on the list to get shunted back East.
I completely understand people's reactions against the move, however many of these challenges that I have seen are ones the the club and fans would have had to have faced in the event of promotion anyway. There is no guarantee that NLS football would have sent our attendances into regular 300 plus territory at SJP. Sure, for some matches of course, but for others probably not.
Let's focus on continuing to engage the youth teams, the girls team, the wider community and organically grow the home following at SJP. Let's focus all our energies on raising as much as we can for the club and give us the best possible chance of keeping Gary on board given the circumstances by giving him the best budget to work with and attract players with for the new season.
We should be looking to make Hendon a place players want to play instead of Kings Langley, instead of Harrow, instead of Walton Casuals, instead of Beaconsfield. That should be achievable at the very least. For me, that means taking this one on the chin and building as competitively as we can for 2018/9.
Re: New non-league structure
Views: 2992
My take is that if we were to appeal we'd be sending out the message we don't want to progress - both to prospective players and to potential fans. Someone has to be on a border and given our transport links it was always more likely to be someone in our area than the likes of Bognor - who could easily have thrown up all the same excuses if they'd been selected instead of us.
Yes it's a pain, but frankly put on average there's more winners in the new system than losers. We're unlucky, but the right way to respond is to redouble our efforts into being a club that's progressing and growing off the field to support the extra costs and give the management the best chance possible of building a squad that can challenge in our new surroundings.
Re: New non-league structure
Views: 3062
My own personal circumstances aside, I do feel the underlying issue is one of perception. This move will simply feel to many, for different reasons, as a demotion rather than that of a sideways move. The increased travel by reaching the Connie South would have invariably been offset by larger crowds. We would have had Wealdstone and Dulwich in London rather that Met Police and Staines. Had we gotten relegated, we could have brushed it off and got up again. This feels as if the proverbial rug has been pulled from underneath us. In reality that may not prove to be the case over time. Short-term, like any fan, I worry about Gary and the playing staff some of whom would in all likelihood move on anyway. Does the presumed increased costs have any impact on discussions on contract negotiations. Probably. More important to remain a going concern than a growing one. Even that may not be a huge problem. The potential early exit from cup competitons would be a factor but nothing I presume we have not had to deal with in recent times.
As for the management - the difference between the two divisions, future player recruitment, and all its gubbins, well that's reality. We can't dwell on the fact we were two kicks from the Connie South. We have to face this new situation - we all have problems with it.
Interesting couple of weeks ahead.
Yes, I realise my error with Dulwich, we would have beaten them!
Edited by rwakeley at 22:06:21 on 11th May 2018
Re: New non-league structure
Views: 3049
Whilst acknowledging that you can"t please all of the people all of the time ,I wonder how many of the people are pleased with the results of the great reshuffle.I think that it is reasonable to assume that none of those responsible passed their GCSE"s in Geography in their schooldays . As it seems our bed has been made for us,we will have to lie in it,but when you consider the problems we as a club have overcome in the last decade I feel sure that with Rob and Simon and co.off the field and Gary and Freddie on the field ,we as a club will rise to the occasion and continue to thrive It could have been worse,I hear we were being considered for the Highland League at one point !!
Re: New non-league structure
Views: 3034
I think the FA Leagues Committee has done a good job with these allocations. They usually do.
Of course, the problem is one of the sheer stupidity of the way football is organised in this country. Clubs with Hendon's support base and financial structure should be playing in a league that is either entirely London-based or one that covers West London and the western Home Counties. There should arguably be no "Pyramid" and no automatic promotion and relegation. Clubs would stay at their "natural level" unless they applied to move up to a bigger league. In days of yore, a club with good support, on a sound financial footing, would almost always be elected or accepted into a more senior league if it applied for membership. Conversely, an "ambitious" club, with negligible support and a benefactor hell bent on an ego trip fueled by insolvent trading, would not be admitted to a league at a higher level.
While clubs continue to own their grounds, continue to act as self-interested & independent entities and - crucially - continue to channel every spare farthing into the pockets of greedy, 4th-rate, mercenary players, the system won't change.
Come the revolution, I'd legally prevent any senior football club from having any age group team below u-17s attached to it. Youth players should be playing for youth clubs, within a centrally-funded youth system, for the benefit and development of those young players; not for the benefit of selfish clubs, which operate a factory trawler system.
That's a different argument though.
As I say, I can't see how the Leagues Committee could've done much better. On the SE/SW border, splitting Sussex seems daft and there's not much odds between sending Cor-Cas and K's west or sending Hendon and Harrow out there.
Edited by Morgs at 00:36:56 on 12th May 2018
Re: New non-league structure FOUND US!
Views: 3510
Step 3 - Southern League South
Banbury United
Basingstoke Town
Beaconsfield Town
Chesham United
Dorchester Town
Farnborough
Frome Town
Gosport Borough
Harrow Borough
Hartley Wintney
Hendon
Kings Langley
Merthyr Town
Metropolitan Poice
Poole Town
Salisbury
Staines Town
Swindon Supermarine
Taunton Town
Tiverton Town
Walton Casuals
Weymouth
Re: New non-league structure FOUND US!
Views: 3120
There are not as many new venues as I would have hoped for in a new division. This is the breakdown
Hendon have played at the following grounds (with most recent date)
Hendon – Last in May 2018
Staines Town – Last in April 2018
Harrow Borough – Last in December 2017
Metropolitan Poice – Last in September 2017
Farnborough – Not since November 2015
Dorchester Town– Not since October 2014
Chesham United – Not since August 2010
Salisbury – (old club) Not since December 2004
Taunton Town – Two different grounds, Not since November 2004
Basingstoke Town – (at Camrose) Not since August 2003
Weymouth – (Old Rec) Not since Jan 1984
Banbury United – (1980s ground) Not since September 1981 – but Hendon SFC played there more recently
Merthyr Town – If Penydarren Park (as Merthyr Tydfil) Not since December 1973
We have been at home only to:
Kings Langley – Never away
Tiverton Town – Never away
This leaves seven clubs we have never met in first-team action (including friendlies)
Beaconsfield Town – Never met (U-18s met them as Beaconsfield SYCOB in 1990s)
Frome Town – Never met
Gosport Borough – Never met
Hartley Wintney – Never met
Poole Town – Never met (Friendly called off at an a former ground on one day’s notice in August 1998)
Swindon Supermarine – Never met
Walton Casuals – Never met
Re: New non-league structure FOUND US!
Views: 3101
Good research. Slightly bizarrely Merthyr played at SJP last season when Hayes and Yeading had their safety certificate withdrawn and SJP stepped in to offer H&Y a match venue.
Edited by embee at 15:26:30 on 11th May 2018
That, in the words of Ross O'Carroll-Kelly...
Views: 3255
...can FRO😲.
Re: That, in the words of Ross O'Carroll-Kelly...
Views: 11296
I had reservations over the idea of Bognor being stuck in that division while Worthing and others from Sussex were in the Isthmian Premier, but I didn't see Hendon heading west.
A lot of excellent days out for fans who like a Jolly Boys' Outing and who have cash, transport or both, but a lot of long schleps to out-of-the-way places.
Undoubtedly there will be players who will not fancy trekking out west. I doubt the management is ecstatic either. And as for the treasurer...
Re: That, in the words of Ross O'Carroll-Kelly...
Views: 3259
My biggest dread. Personally, I reckon without delving in I automatically write off a huge chunk of away days.
Logistically a nightmare and games I can get to will become if anything a far more complex challenge and the costs go off the charts.
No doubt some are happy. I seriously hope from the clubs perspective this has no immediate or longer-term detrimental knock-ons. The travel costs alone should spiral. I can see away games with virtually no fans present.
As for future seasons and other teams which may potentially join us - it could get worse.
Dumbstruck sums up my sentiment right now.
To say we are in unchartered territory is an understatement.
Re: That, in the words of Ross O'Carroll-Kelly...
Views: 3717
Woah. I hope the players have some very understandable employers as a midweek schlep to Tiverton is gonna mean a seriously early clock off!
Some solid teams amongst the new line up. Looking forward to going back to Chesham, and would hope Weymouth and Merthyr are doable as a one-off, but I agree Rob, some deep pockets required!
Re: That, in the words of Ross O'Carroll-Kelly...
Views: 3116
I share the concerns about going into the "unknown"....and especially the effect it will have on the squad/staff.
But from a personal (selfish) point of view; I'm somehow attracted to the new line-up. It helps massively, that I live near M25/M40/M4 so I can see me driving to quite a few away days.
We lose awkward trips to Lowestoft, Leiston & (for me) Folkestone, Margate. We get a fair few big distance trips to the South West & Merthyr. But we also keep Harrow, Staines, Met and get Beaconsfield (I got home from there recently in 7 minutes!)
I'm not too sure how well supported these clubs are and whether the away followings stand up well with The Isthmian?
Personally, I'm looking forward to a change but naturally I too am worried about the implications for Hendon FC.
One thing I do know, is that we do know how to face a challenge and come through.
Re: That, in the words of Ross O'Carroll-Kelly...
Views: 3119
I too am looking forward to the change in league. Yes, I am concerned about the impact on playing staff / management and yes, on paper the travelling does seem to be a bitch but...
There are a number of clubs we have been to before (Basingstoke, Farnborough, Chesham) others no further but arguably easier journeys than some we've lost (Banbury, Hartley Wintney, Gosport) a handful of local-ish journeys (Harrow, Staines, Kings Langley, Beaconsfield, Walton) and then some enticing looking away days to Wessex and the West Country.
I don't think we have been shafted particularly so much as unlucky - the border had to fall somewhere and unfortunately for us it fell wrong. But if it wasn't us, it would have been Corinthian / Kingstonian or Bognor and Worthing. Not much good for anyone. With any restructuring you're not going to please everyone and you're not going to cut down on travelling for every team.
The way I see it from a supporters point of view (which I realise differs from the players and staff) is that we have a choice. We either look to make the best of the situation, continue to build the club off the pitch and commit every spare penny we can afford to the twelfth man scheme, or we moan about how unfair this all is and lose the momentum we've built over the past eighteen months.
Despite the setbacks of the last week, I believe we are a club on the cusp of potentially going places. That's only going to happen if we all continue to pull yin the same direction. Hendonboy said to me the other day that when he attended matches in the last week we felt like a club progressing rather than one battling to stay alive.
The shift is likely to mean larger costs for the club, so perhaps fans could do all they could to keep £1 spare if possible to put in the bucket collection to go towards the twelfth man. Let's say that raises £200 per home match, then that's an extra £4200 over a league season.
If you buy a pint then perhaps put any coin change into the bucket collection - I realise for some every pound counts and they will need it to make ends meet. Of course, wholly understandable - but I think that's the kind of mindset we need to apply to the football club if we want to progress. Maybe even bag up your coppers and donate them as well. I recently counted up how much I had and it came to nearly £12. Many people contributing a little on a regular basis can go a heck of a long way.
I realise I've gone off on a tangent here, but I still firmly feel that we have it within our power to make a success of things, even in the Southern League. We have to make it so. We are fans owned. We are the club.
Attendances out that way.
Views: 3227
Sadly, not as many good country folk attend football out that way as one might expect.
Having languished for a few seasons, the mighty Terras got their act together this time, but Weymouth's increase of 50% in gates still took them only as far as 48th in the non-league list, with an average of 780.
Salisbury, just back up after some fiscal shenanigans, didn't see a lot of change in attendance at the new level, averaging 627.
Meltdown merchants Merthyr got 508, Dorchester a depressingly poor 453, Taunton 429 and plummeting Poole lost 28% of their support as they dropped out of Connie South before an average of 408 speccies.
Banbury 385, Basingstoke 327, Chesham 297, Farnborough 291, death-spiral Gosport a respectable 263 (which is 42% down on their Connie South gates), King's Langley somehow pull 255 and Tivvy got 249. Tivvy used to get 500 - 600 averages when a mid-table Southern Premier team in the early-noughties, having won the FA Vase twice at the end of the 90s, but promotion hasn't moved their gates a jot.
The rest get fewer fans in than Hendon. Frome 238, Swindon Supermarine 207, Walton Casuals 159 - a 141% increase on 16/17 - Hartley Wintney 151 and Beaconsfield 110.
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