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Discipline

By Mike Cox19/8/2015 17:31Wed Aug 19 17:31:18 2015

Views: 3766

Gary has worked unbelievable wonders for the Club over the last 10 or more years and has really got his players to totally commit themselves to the Hendon cause and no amount of praise is too high for him in this regard.
However, (sorry Gary), he has seemingly been unable to stem the flood of red and yellow cards and, in my view, our disciplinary record is pretty shameful. It's great that players are passionate but they must try to control their tempers however difficult this can be at times. Please let's try to reduce the considerable number of times each season that team members are missing due to suspensions.

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Re: Discipline

By rwakeley19/8/2015 20:47Wed Aug 19 20:47:21 2015In response to DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3557

I don't think we have an endemic problem albeit I would advocate we have 'occurrencies' and patterns of individual behaviour which when arise due to the given characteristics of the individuals concerned has far reaching consequences for that performance and wider consequences thereafter.
For me there's a difference in the frequent actions of an individual and the team being the recipient of a shed-load of bookings for the teams inherent shortcomings on the field of play or seige mentality.
Managers have to man-manage all this stuff, publicly supporting the player, whilst either nurturing him or going ballistic behind closed doors.
Players call the shots as managers careers are judged by results not actions. I personally despise the continual antics of managers in the top flight with the millionaire stars and I feel sorry for the vast populous whom absorb every aspect of it all. I think it's pathetic.
On a similar vein, the only time I may have had a bone to pick with the gaffer on this issue was Kevin Mac's sending off at Lowestoft. When apparently, (I wasn't there), Hendon fan/s may or may not have abused Kevin as he left the pitch. I don't if anything did or did not happen so apologies if I am speaking out of kilter.
I do however know one thing - Had I actually been there I may well have been a prime suspect!
Managers will always put the players first, but it ain't good practice to chastise fans - even if your one hundred per cent correct.
Why mention this? At non-league grounds, individual comments by fans are heard with more clarity. A player, and yes we have previous in this regard, may well be more prone to react to hearing an individual comment than that of derision of a combined twenty thousand. That's not an excuse. I would always advocate that supporters have the right to express their views and vent their frustrations. Those of whom disagree for the best part think nothing of yelling for opposition players to be dismissed at every opportunity.
It maybe slightly unfair on that premise to expect players to act like Saints - but that is how it is.
I maintain Hendon could have possibly handled the more consistent offenders maybe somewhat differently, but then I don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
I express my emotions how I want. I police myself and really don't care what others make of it. If I stepped over the line I would recognize the fact - I expect those I support to act in a similar fashion. But I recognize we are all human and make mistakes. If it happens on a consistent basis then it's a problem. Personally, I can't stand seeing players remonstrate with the Ref, never have done and never will. I maintain it shows dis-respect and shows a lack of proper conduct. The players are representing the club.
That's my prerogative - How the gaffer and the club handle these matters is up to them.

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Re: Discipline

By John Rogers20/8/2015 07:55Thu Aug 20 07:55:01 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3536

I've been fortunate enough to get to all four matches this season so far and more than half of the cards so far received have been, in my view, wholly unnecessary.

On Saturday, Scott Shulton was booked for continual dissent.
On Tuesday, Scott Shulton was booked for continual dissent. Although he'd been clearly fouled five yards in front of the assistant and not got the decision, he wouldn't leave it alone and picked up a yellow card.
Also on Tuesday, Maz Bettache was booked for standing over a Molesey free kick despite being told to walk away by the referee.

Why? What is the point? Scott is now three cards away from a suspension.

Last season I think we picked up eight or nine dismissals. The only one I saw that I thought was even slightly dubious was Morgan's in the play-off final.

This season we've picked up one already that was unnecessary and needless.

I'm all for players being wholehearted and commited (I despise the word passion), and players will pick up cautions along the way. However, there's a world of difference from picking up a yellow card for a mistimed challenge and picking one up because you can't accept a decision not going your way. At some point, all of these needless bookings and dismissals are going to catch up with us suspension wise.

Five or six years ago, when the FA introduced their much hyped and now long forgotten 'Respect' agenda, our discipline was excellent. When a decision went against us, Kirbs (captain at that point) would quietly have a word with the official, arms behind his back and it was accepted. Seeing players from both sides on Saturday surround the referee following the award of the penalty was dispiriting. Thankfully, on this occasion, we had an extremely strong official that knew his own mind.

Edited by John Rogers at 07:56:36 on 20th August 2015

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Re: Discipline

By John Fordham (Agingdon)20/8/2015 10:05Thu Aug 20 10:05:00 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3507

Agree with all that's been said. A couple of other points:
1. I've never seen a ref change his mind on a decision made based upon objections from players so why bother. A prime example was Scott Shulton's booking on Tuesday. Yes it was a foul and the lino/ref didn't give it but swearing at the ref, as Scott did, will only lead to a booking.
2. Hendon last season acquired a reputation for gamesmanship that upset fans of opposing teams - just look at the comments made at the time on the Maidstone and Margate fora. My belief is that, at least partly, this reputation was deserved and I was really hoping that our teams behaviour would improve this season..

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Re: Discipline

By Paul Butler (buts1690)20/8/2015 15:48Thu Aug 20 15:48:37 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3575

Let's rewind to when Gary took over from Gary Farrell, with Nicholls and his cronies controlling the dressing room, the disciplinary record under Choules that season as well was awful, far worse than now. Gary came in and cleaned things up, kept us up and the disciplinary record improved a lot, so much so that I think as a team we were too nice and didn't have a killer instinct. With experience, Gary has got a team together now that fight for each other, and have a will to win unlike any Hendon side I've ever seen. Margate and Maidstone didn't like us for one reason - we were beating them. We're not in this to make friends, we're in it to win things. Winning things is what we're doing at the moment, and if opposition fans don't like us for it, then eff them! I'd much rather win the league and have everyone hate us than be mid table and have all the opposition fans saying how great we were (which is exactly the comments we got in Gary's first couple of years)

Shults has always been gobby, it's a trait that I'm sure Gary was aware of when signing him (and to be fair the foul on Tuesday was as blatant as can be, so I can see his frustration on that one)

The MacLaren situation aside, we don't get any more suspensions or red cards than any other club, Morgs' red was a silly one and I'm sure he knows that, but these things happen.

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Re: Discipline

By John Rogers21/8/2015 07:20Fri Aug 21 07:20:21 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3625

I agree with your comments about Margate and Maidstone fans, Paul. It seemed to me that there was a lot of sour grapes doing the rounds in Kent during the spring.

I also agree that at times we have, in the past, lacked that killer instinct. However, I don't necessarily think that's through any physical shortcomings, more a mental one. Last season's success was largely built on a mentality that even if we go behind, we have the quality to beat anyone. And that's exactly what we did.

However, what I don't accept is that with that level of ruthlessness automatically comes a need to try and influence officials, blatantly dive (as Shulton has done on more than one occasion this season) and bring in those parts of the game that make the Premier League so unwatchable. If he, Shulton, spent as much effort concentrating on his game as he does gobbing off, he'd be a heck of an asset. He's started the season well - but what use is he suspended after collecting five bookings for dissent?

I hope Aaron has learned from his dismissal against Enfield, we now miss him against East Thurrock, Leiston and Harrow where, in the first two matches, his pace, power and ability to create something from nothing will be a big loss.

Players will always pick up cards and suspensions it's part and parcel of football (Olly's red card in the LSC Final), but I get really ticked off when a player is sat in the stands when they should be on the pitch.

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Re: Discipline

By Mike Cox21/8/2015 15:13Fri Aug 21 15:13:29 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3443

Absolutely agree with John Rogers' very thoughtful and reasoned posts on this subject.

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Discipline

By David B21/8/2015 17:40Fri Aug 21 17:40:46 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3415

A statistic from last season, Hendon players received a disappointingly high nine red cards, three of which were two yellow cards, one was a professional foul (keeping the score at 1–0 down in the London Senior Cup final) and one was rescinded.

Our opponents received 14, including one manager; four were two yellows and five were professional fouls. Twice – against Wingate & Finchley and Metropolitan Police – were they reduced to nine men, though both were in the dying minutes.

As I said above, our red card count was too high, but the figures suggest we were more sinned against than sinners and five red cards for professional fouls showed that we must have been doing an awful lot of attacking.

Quite often, the two yellows are simply unfortunate, but two of ours included one yellow for something silly. As for the professional fouls, these are frequently desperation challenges that are, if not acceptable, understandable.

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Re: Discipline

By Mike Cox29/8/2015 17:08Sat Aug 29 17:08:27 2015In response to DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3554

What on earth is going on???
Yet another straight red - this time for Flegg.
Shulton receives his usual yellow card - is that 4 or 5 already?
Obviously I do not know the circumstances for today's bookings - but I am totally appalled by our disciplinary record and am almost ashamed of supporting such a bunch of prima donnas who are a disgrace to a wonderful club. I think we should be showing the door to several players.

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Re: Discipline

By Mike Cox29/8/2015 17:11Sat Aug 29 17:11:35 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3392

Apologies to Sam Flegg - the miscreant was of course Murphy.

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Re: Discipline

By SteveHFC29/8/2015 17:37Sat Aug 29 17:37:15 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3400

I wasn't there today - but I think what has been posted by the website team on the news page, and what has been appearing on the club twitter feed, leave us in no doubt that our discipline was unacceptable today.

Shulton has 4 bookings so far this season - 3 of which are for dissent. Unacceptable, especially after just 7 games.

Murphy misses the FA Cup tie at AFC Sudbury and the two games that follow. All for retaliating to something that the referee had seen, had awarded us a free kick for, and was about to book the Leiston player. So unnecessary.

Morgan has one more game to miss - and will be available for the trip to Canvey on Saturday.

There is a lot more I'd like to say - but I shall keep that to myself.

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Re: Discipline

By hfcyork29/8/2015 22:40Sat Aug 29 22:40:01 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3385

After another unnecessary sending off and booking today some individual players have questions to answer but more importantly so do the management. Ill discipline loses games (we all know the impact the sending off had in the play off final even if the decision was later proved wrong) and brings the club into disrepute. I've followed Hendon for over 35 years (and there are another 50 before that from various family members) and have never known the club to have a reputation for ill discipline. To see the comments above is saddening. As a fans owned club that growing poor reputation reflects badly on everyone.

David B has suggested that we are sinned against rather than being sinners but over the course of last season Hendon finished an appalling second worst in the Ryman fair play table. Although some of that can be attributed to number of games played it is not a stat we should ever want to repeat. I would have hoped the management would already have been tasked to clear out the worst offenders and then strive for improvements this year. Instead we have seen 2 sent off in the first 6 games and comments made about unnecessary bookings.

Kevin McLaren had a very poor record on the pitch last year contributing around 15% of the total disciplinary points gained yet only playing in just over half the total games. He averaged a caution or dismissal in at least every third game. Even without the unsavoury off the pitch incident there should have been no place for him in the squad this season. The lengthy ban should have been a blessing in disguise allowing the club to quietly dispense with McClaren's services yet it appears there is still a route back on offer. That sends the wrong message.

At a time when supporters were asked not to comment pending McClaren's appeal Gary McCann was offering support in the press and hoping for a reduced sentence (so by implication accepting McClaren's guilt). If the owners of the club can't comment then why does the manager? Couple that approach with the character observations of the independent panel and you start to wonder about his overall suitability.

The club has worthy aspirations for a move to SJP and greater involvement with youth and community while remaining supporter owned. This article is food for thought:

http://www.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/featured/12577/national-game-awards-pfa-fair-play-award-harrogate-town/

Initiatives aimed at improving standards e.g. foul language, should be welcomed but not just by supporters. Players and management need to buy into and support that whole approach too and set a good example all round especially if they are to justify their pay which comes direct from supporters hard earned cash. Long term reputation and ambitions are worth far more than a couple of good seasons kicking and shouting on the way to winning a few matches.

2 sent off in 6 matches, with comments made about them being unnecessary is a very poor start given our record last year. No manager or player is indispensable and if they can't (or won't) look to improve on the current disciplinary record and reputation then, irrespective of results, it is time for a change.

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Re: Discipline

By John Rogers30/8/2015 11:41Sun Aug 30 11:41:36 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3199

Absolutely brilliant post.

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Re: Discipline

By Don of Caddington30/8/2015 07:45Sun Aug 30 07:45:32 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3371

I agree with everything written in the previous post. I raised a question at the AGM regarding the brothers and their future with Hendon Football Club. At the time we were told nothing should be said or done whilst the appeal was pending. That appeal process has long past, but there has been no statement from the club. Are they hoping Supporters will forget and welcome the brothers back with open arms? Current players may well look at this as an open invitation to behave badly and get away with it. Thus tarnishing the reputation of a great football club.

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Re: Discipline

By Simon30/8/2015 13:22Sun Aug 30 13:22:15 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3252

Thanks for your post Sandra. I said at the AGM that the club would not be making a statement until after the appeal had been heard.

The club is currently in the middle of an internal disciplinary process and will make a statement once that has been completed.

I have spoken to a number of supporters since the AGM, including yourself, about the Maclaren situation and I am happy to talk to any and every supporter about that situation or any other aspect of the club at any time.

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Re: Discipline

By John Rogers30/8/2015 11:20Sun Aug 30 11:20:58 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3278

I found yesterday's spectacle as a whole thoroughly depressing. Not just the incident that led to Murphy's dismissal, but the entire afternoon.

Almost every time the referee awarded a free kick one way or the other, there was a player disputing the decision, often with accompanying profanity. Now, I, for one, would like to see absolute zero tolerance displayed by an official one day and just dish out red and yellow cards as soon as anyone opened their mouth.

Both sides were as bad as eachother yesterday harranguing the referee, trying to con the referee and generally behave like spoilt little schoolboys. It was the same against East Thurrock on Monday evening and, I suspect, will probably be the same tomorrow. In that knowledge, it is with little enthusiasm that I will be attending the game tomorrow.

Murphy was silly, has already held his hands up and apologised for losing his head. I realise that it was a split second reaction, and getting thrown to the floor is not really everyone's cup of tea - but the decision has gone our way. The referee is dealing with Joe Francis. Just take a second out. Now, we lose probably, alongside Morgan, our best player of the season so far for three matches.

Then there's Shulton. How many times does he have to get booked for dissent before someone, somewhere tells him that enough is enough? He is one booking away from suspension. Three of those cautions have been for 'gobbing off' at the referee. He's a grown up isn't he? Why not learn a lesson sometime. I'm sick of it. Absolutely sick of it. Do the players get fined for dissent? If not, why not? If so, perhaps we should be looking at increasing the penalty.

The club are rightly trying to build a family club ahead of the move to SJP - I am fully behind that. Absolutely 100% committed to it. However, this has to filter right through every fibre of the club, on and off the pitch. It's all well and good supporters being expected to behave in a certain way (and I believe that we should be able to conduct ourselves with a modicum of restraint and decency), but the players and manager have to begin to take responsibility as well.

There are many parts of the Maclaren issue that I have found, and continue to find extremely troubling and I don't envy Simon, Rob, Mike and David in the slightest. I'm not going to pontificate too much about it on here, only to say that I wrote something on here a few months ago after Kevin had been sent-off against Lewes. I stand by those comments 100%. No-one, no matter how much loyalty they've shown the club, should think themselves, or be thought by others to be bigger than the club as a whole.

In between the sniping and whinging yesterday, the players played some good football up to the final third. Unfortunately, we were lacking that little bit of spark, guile and sharpness in the final third. It wasn't losing yesterday that was so hard to take, it was the manner of defeat.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By SteveHFC30/8/2015 13:11Sun Aug 30 13:11:03 2015In response to Re: DisciplineTop of thread

Views: 3298

Gary has clearly read the criticism of the discipline - and has posted the following in italics on twitter in the past hour or so. I'm sure his formal post-match quotes will appear on the website in due course.

"The criticism of the teams discipline has been totally justified... It will be addressed further and will be improved without doubt.

Yesterday's sending off affected result, apologised accepted from Sam but the team have to take stock.

Dissent bookings will be a thing of the past and the punishment will be maxed. At present 50% fine is not serving its purpose.

It has been a tough week results wise and performance has deserved more. Must stick together and stay focused. Onto @harrowboro_fc

Must also add players that are driven by success and winning (we have in abundance) have a tendency to step over the line.... #balance"

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By John Rogers30/8/2015 13:44Sun Aug 30 13:44:37 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3206

Credit to the gaffer for publicly coming out and addressing the issue - the proof will be in the pudding.

I noticed from Scott Shulton's twitter feed as well that he is now away for the next two matches.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By Mike Cox30/8/2015 15:40Sun Aug 30 15:40:40 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3218

Glad that people are at last voicing their opinions on the teams discipline or rather lack of it. As far as the Mclarens are concerned we must surely say thank you for your services and loyalty but goodbye. As for Shulton, just goodbye.
I have probably been supporting Hendon even longer than Les and have been proud to do so. This unfortunately no longer applies with the current mob's antics. With my health problems it is quite a strain getting to games and it hurts me greatly to wonder whether I should continue to make the effort.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By essex don30/8/2015 23:13Sun Aug 30 23:13:09 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3322

has our discipline been bad this season,it most certainly has.however it isn't just us it is endemic throughout football.every game now contains the opinion that you can influence the referee by as the phrase goes getting in his ear early in the game.have yet this season to come across one group of players or management team who haven't screamed at every tackle made by the opposing team hoping to get that player a yellow or red card am I defending some of our cards no. are we different from other teams no we are not.different refs react differently.to different game situations.some referees understand the game and others don't there is a difference between asking him why he has given a decision and verbally abusing him(mr shulton please take notice).as for the mclarens wasn't in the bar so cant comment however my opinion is once their punishment has been served we should have them back and I don't think the thoughts that the other players think they can get away with behaving badly because we would have them back is accurate.our discipline must improve or we will need a very big squad

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By dw31/8/2015 07:14Mon Aug 31 07:14:17 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3281

I agree with much of that. I always hark back to the late sixties and well into the seventies when football was played hard but generally fairly, yet bookings were extremely rare, almost to the point of making the news if handed out. Sending offs were almost unheard of. Sadly the powers that be thought that the game would be improved if bookings were issued for progressively minor offences up to the point when referees were actively being encouraged to issue yellow and red cards like confetti. This was noticeably triggered by edicts at the start of World Cup Finals. And, yes, this simply encouraged play-acting, feigning injury, diving etc. to try to get opponents into trouble. There was then the temptation in turn for managers who were suffering from these antics to think if they can do it why not us?

The recent World Cup saw a much needed reversal of this trend. Referees were clearly told to ignore the acting and diving. It worked, even if some fouls went unpunished but it produced a brilliant World Cup. Sadly, domestic games here last season reverted to type.

Edited by dw at 09:33:25 on 31st August 2015

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By Deadman31/8/2015 10:58Mon Aug 31 10:58:39 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3205

Oddly enough we seem more grisly/petulant on the field now that the McClarens aren't playing. Most of it is just whining at the ref but it's a pain to listen to. The petulant acts of Morgan and Murphy have surprised me as those two were well behaved last season. They have nothing to prove and should stick to playing football, which is what they are good at,

So back to the Leiston game....

Murphy was a pillock on Sat and can have no complaints about his red. But for us older ones, we remember the days not so long ago when a double handed shove (albeit a forceful one) would have been a yellow or a finger wag from the ref. These days it's a red all day long

Leiston's 8 was really lucky not to get a 1st half red for kicking out and another one for elbowing. He then scored. So there was plenty going on from both teams and the officials only saw some of it, which, although frustrating, is understandable.

Overall it appears that the bar has been raised this season and that this might be a factor behind the disciplinary problem. I felt that Leiston were on the wind up a bit on Sat but we fell right into their trap. When we played football we were the better team even with ten men.

So time to concentrate on the football lads. Let the refs do the reffing, stop lashing out at snidey opponents and try to look as if you are enjoying the game rather than carping at each other and the officials.

Ps and let's get Braithwaite, Da Costa and Morgan back as soon as! They'll make a big difference to our performances.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By Paul Butler (buts1690)31/8/2015 10:43Mon Aug 31 10:43:35 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3251

I honestly think some people on here would rather we lost every week and politely applauded the opposition afterwards. Even suggestions of "a change of management" forgetting the amount Gary Mac has done for this club, where we would be now if he hadn't put 10 years plus of hard graft into it. The lack of loyalty to the McLaren brothers is no surprise then, these are two players who have probably had countless offers to play higher up but showed loyalty to this club and to Gary, so if he wants to keep them, which I'm sure he does, then that's good enough for me. The only table I'm interested in is the league table, finish top of that and bottom of the "fair play league" cobblers then I'd be delighted.

It is rather amusing though having been going to games for 16 years now and never seeing a more successful side, that football fans always need something to moan about! Now we win more than we lose, suddenly yellow and red cards are what we want to complain about...

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By ChrisHFC31/8/2015 11:58Mon Aug 31 11:58:13 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3219

Yes, some (most?) of us DO want to complain about the number of yellow and red cards, and don't want to finish at or near the bottom of "the fair play league cobblers", as Paul calls it.

Firstly, it's not necessary. When Rothmans started their sponsorship in 1973, one of their innovations was a pot of money for discipline. Each club started with 8 disciplinary points, losing 1 for a booking and 4 for a dismissal. Those clubs who still had a positive total at the end of the season shared the pot based on the amount of points they still had.

One club lost a total of one disciplinary point across the first two seasons. That club was Wycombe Wanderers. One club was champions in both seasons. That club? Wycombe Wanderers!!!

Admittedly, due to FIFA directives and the rest, there are far more bookings and dismissals now than there were in the 1970s, but Wycombe's record in 1973-74 and 1974-75 proves that it is not necessary to amass red and yellow cards to become champions.

Secondly, finishing at or near the bottom of the Fair Play league sends out several unwanted messages. It suggests to our supporters that we are prepared to tarnish the good name of the club by doing whatever it takes to win - whether by fair means or foul. It suggests to the opposition that all they have to do is to start winding us up so that our players react and collect yellow or red cards. It could also dissuade some quality players from approaching or joining the club because they don't want to be involved with a "win at all costs" mentality in a club. Is that really what we want for Hendon?

As supporters, we all accept that players are going to receive yellow and red cards - it's pretty well unavoidable these days. What we don't accept, however, are the unnecessary cards - for retaliation, for dissent or generally mouthing-off at officials, for not retreating at an opposition free-kick, for diving in to tackles in or near the opposition's penalty area.

Dave Anderson, when manager, made a telling point to Scott Cousins when he first joined the club - it's mentioned in the Green & Gold article on Scott. The gist is, what use to a club is an outstanding player if he's sitting in the stand serving a suspension?

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By John Fordham (Agingdon)31/8/2015 11:20Mon Aug 31 11:20:13 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3169

I agree partly with Essex Don's message. It does appear that fronting up to the ref has become endemic but, in my opinion, this primarily relates to games where we have a weak referee - just look at the Dulwich game where we had an excellent ref and there was very little in the way of bad behaviour.

The ref at Leiston was weak and both teams realized this. None of us (except Pau Butler) want to see this sort of behaviour - we are all fed up with it - and it is up to team management and the ref to clamp down.

I think Paul's message is ridiculous and should be ignored. He seems to condone bad behaviour but only if undertaken by Hendon players - if opponents do it then he is shouting louder than anyone.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By SteveHFC31/8/2015 11:44Mon Aug 31 11:44:56 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3277

I agree with Paul that any suggestions of a change in management are way over the top - especially given Gary's comments on twitter yesterday. He's aware there's a bit of a disciplinary issue at the moment, and he's going to deal with it. Let's let him do that. He's done it before, and he'll do it again.

Overall, I don't think our discipline has been that bad this season - it's just that a much higher proportion than normal of our red and yellow cards have been needless and unnecessary, and that is where my frustration lies. Dissent and violent conduct are unacceptable in my opinion, no matter what the provocation or frustration.

Sam Murphy has apologised on twitter for his red card - he knows he's made a stupid heat of the moment mistake and he's clearly keen to let his football do the talking.

Dissent is indefensible at any time, no matter how wrong anyone might think a decision is. By having a go at the ref and swearing at him, you're not going to change his mind. We all know this, so why waste the effort. I'll never ever understand this.

I think the biggest issue that has arisen over the past couple of days is that our poor discipline on Saturday clearly had a likely negative effect on the result.

As for the Maclaren's, I've deliberately kept quiet on the topic, but have given my opinions to Simon about it. I've also told Simon that whatever he, the directors and Gary decide to do, I'll support them whether I agree with the outcome or not.

One thing I will always say about Simon - and indeed Gary - is that they will listen when we are unhappy with what's happening. If you have an issue you'd like to raise with them, they are always both approachable.

Finally, let's respect the fact that some of us have different opinions to others, and that we're not all going to agree. There is no need for any personal attacks on other supporters.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By Paul Butler (buts1690)31/8/2015 11:41Mon Aug 31 11:41:09 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3156

If everyone took your attitude John F we'd be playing friendlies all year round. It's a competitive game and WINNING is what matters. The stats tell you that a team won the league or cup (as we won two last season) not "that team won but they were a horrible bunch"

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By John Fordham (Agingdon)31/8/2015 11:49Mon Aug 31 11:49:51 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3161

You are totally missing the point, Paul. We are talking specifically about off-the-ball incidents that end up with players being booked or sent off. I think all will agree that bad tackles etc are part and parcel of competitve games.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By Paul Butler (buts1690)31/8/2015 12:00Mon Aug 31 12:00:55 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3193

It's clear to me that people seem to really care what other clubs and other clubs' fans think of us. We have as a team been disliked the past couple of years because we've been beating teams, and sometimes been very clever at manipulating a weak referee. I'd rather do that and win than be nice and lose. That's my point.

Haven't seen Smurph's red from Saturday, but Morgs' one v Enfield was disappointing. I certainly agree that we need to be a little bit more clever about these things.

Football in general is far too watered down nowadays - have a look at any of the straight reds dished out like confetti in the Premier League this weekend (or an equally ridiculous one for a Queen of the South player against Rangers yesterday) for plenty of examples. A straight red used to be for genuinely VIOLENT conduct, as in something that is going to really hurt an opponent. But then when you get a year's ban for a punch up in the bar afterwards then it goes to show how much the game has changed, in my opinion for the worse.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By Hendonboy31/8/2015 12:24Mon Aug 31 12:24:07 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3344

To be honest Paul, I've no personally interest in whether red or yellow cards are shown too lightly these days or not, I'm bothered by the fact that of our 4 goalscorers so far season, two have already picked up entirely unnecessary 3 match bans for afters (in one case after he'd already been awarded a free kick!) while another is already (still in August!) about to pick up a ban for gobbing off at the referee over and over again. As others have said, it's all so horribly avoidable.

I cannot for the life of me see how any of that is a necessary part of a title winning side. Hard or mistimed tackles that earn a yellow? Fine. Last man taking someone out "for the team"? Not exactly my cup of tea, but understandable. Getting "in the ref's ear"? Everyone does it these days. I don't like it, but understand why a few quiet words can help the cause. Retaliation or swearing at the ref? Sorry, but it's not helpful, and needs cutting out.

Like it or not, over the last year or so, we've obviously got worse at this. Not to the extent that Maidstone fans were whining about - I largely agree with you that they just didn't like losing to a side who on paper have no rights to be near them - but to a point where we're starting to lose important players entirely unnecessarily. I'll happily stand up and defend our overall disciplinary record last season - we played more games than anyone else, so it's unsurprising we picked up the second most cautions/red cards... once you averaged them out per game we finished bang mid-table, but at the moment we're on course to top it quite comfortably and we don't have the depth in our squad to handle the consequences or the finances to deal with the inevitable FA fine if this continues.

As with others, I'm going to bite my tongue on the Maclarens. It's one for another day as far as I'm concerned. As with John R further up, I've a lot of misgivings about the whole thing and if as Simon says the club is still going through it's disciplinary process then now probably isn't the time for me to air any of them.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By Paul Butler (buts1690)31/8/2015 12:54Mon Aug 31 12:54:08 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3205

Can't disagree with much of that Phil, as I said earlier we do need to be a little bit more clever about it, which on a few occasions this season has not been the case.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By Deadman1/9/2015 07:54Tue Sep 1 07:54:10 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3266

The two suspensions for Sam and Aaron were completely avoidable and the first one has clearly damaged the team, as we have lost ALL three games that Aaron has missed and we haven't really looked like scoring. We have yet to see how Sam's absence will affect us but it's not likely to have a positive impact.

I think most people think that it's a balance that's needed. We all want to see players tackle hard but we don't want to see reckless/dangerous play. We want players to be competitive but we don't want a team of whining Robbie Savages because it just doesn't make for good viewing. For sure, have the odd word with the ref and the opposition but not for the full 90 minutes. It's a pain to listen to and after a while it actually turns officials against you.

On the subject of being competitive and having a winning mentality, I've got the impression that the players are currently a bit too wound-up (a fine line, I know). I see a lot of angst and arguing amongst them on the field (with a few exceptions like Dave) and I've also noticed a tiny bit of dissent towards our own bench. Maybe these things are more noticeable when the team isn't winning but the players could do worse than relax and remember that ultimately they are playing for the enjoyment of the game. I'm sure then, that the results will follow because they all have talent.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By Paul Butler (buts1690)1/9/2015 10:45Tue Sep 1 10:45:55 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3174

Completely agree with that point re angst, to be expected with a winning mentality after losing a long winning streak, the challenge now is coming out of the other side - could almost compare it to Chelsea's poor start. Even in the first five minutes Kezie and Leon growled at each other when a pass didn't quite link up, and both got more frustrated as the game wore on.

However, the bench shouting louder is what made the referee give Boro a penalty for handball and not give us one for the same thing - in fact all their bench had to do was shout and the whistle would follow.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By Middx Wanderer1/9/2015 21:46Tue Sep 1 21:46:16 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3130

I noticed. Aryan Tajkabhsh, played for Hendon tonight He will certainly keep up your yellow/red card count . . I think he scored14/2 last season. And as they say the rest is history!

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By ChrisHFC2/9/2015 14:17Wed Sep 2 14:17:01 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3144

He did - in a "friendly" against Weadlstone. My guess is that the chances of our signing him are slimmer than those of a snowball lasting in hell for a thousand years.

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By Middx Wanderer10/9/2015 12:09Thu Sep 10 12:09:34 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3119

So snowballs in Hell it is !!

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By Non league drifter (Le Renard)2/9/2015 09:05Wed Sep 2 09:05:57 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3245

Well, I hope they checked he was eligible to play!

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Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)

By ChrisHFC2/9/2015 09:10Wed Sep 2 09:10:14 2015In response to Re: Discipline (From Gary's twitter feed)Top of thread

Views: 3262

Doesn't matter whether he was eligible or not - he only played in a "friendly" against Wealdstone.

Edited by ChrisHFC at 09:12:16 on 2nd September 2015

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